Discussion of "Thou Shalt Not Kill Ch. 7: Slipknots and Loose Ends (Revised)" by wolfram

publish! Its great, and today is the deadline!

Published! Don't understand this UTC time thing anyway, so I shouldn't cut it too close.

Title: Not "Though" but "Thou".

Heh. In my first draft, about half of my "thou"s were "though"s, but I thought I had corrected them all. Can't believe I missed the one in the title. Thanks for catching that, Cornelius. I think my fingers instinctively type "though" because I so rarely use the word "thou".

Publish this! Great job vamping up the hysterics! You have a solid chapter here! Hurry, before the deadline is up!

Fantastic work, wolfram. While keeping all the players in the game, you threw some really fabulous curveballs!! Glad you made it in time. I didn't a chapter or two ago and I KNOW all about UTC...lol. This is definitely a strong challenger for the top spot..good luck!!

Thanks for your kind words, writerwannabe. Although I'd love it if my chapter were chosen, I'm really just glad people seem to like it. Other than some recent drabbles (100 word exercises) this is the first real piece of fiction I've written in a frighteningly long time.

First off, I love your title. It is really eye-catching.
One thing I noticed is every once in a while you throw in some really poetic lines (sleep's tendrils, for example) and some sophisticated words (versimilitud) but they don't really seem to fit in with the rest of your writing.

I really like the part about Franco refining Adara's palate. Also, the mundane comment about the ring tone was great!!

WOW!!! Creepy re-intro of Esperanza. Thanks so much for remembering here!!

Good insight into Adara's thoughts. This part was extremely well writting in my opinion.

Wow!! And I really mean wow!! Now Paige is guilty of murder? Holy cow! I love the reference to the Order. Very ominous.

My only real critique is I would have ended the story there. The part about Will seemed a bit forced, but well written.

Overall, this was a wonderful chapter.
5
EA

Thanks for your comments. I agree with everything you said. Funny thing about the title, I always write those last and I almost forgot to include one. This one just popped out of the chapter.

I wonder if I should try to be more poetic or less so that the narrative flows better. But partially poetic probably seems disjointed. The verisimilitude word is jarring and I should have used something simpler like "to maintain the pretense". Next time.

A previous author had put in that Adara's ringtone was Vivaldi which I thought was a nice touch, but one of those things people program into their cell phones until it starts to annoy even them but they never bother to change it. I had a short conversation flashback with Franco and Adara about the irony of her having a pretentious ringtone, but I cut it. I really did want to bring up Franco's culinary skills again, the mysterious connection with his sister's murder, and how much Adara hates coincidences.

Your Esperanza phone call, Foo's note about the accent, and Cornelius's Jimmy character - in my head it suddenly clicked and I was trying to show without telling where I think it all connects.

Foo's comments on my first draft were really helpful in shaping some of the Adara scenes. (Thanks again!)

Paige isn't so much guilty, more traumatized by being the unwilling participant in a murder. I'm glad you liked that part. And I wanted to leave the Methra angle with some really good potential. She's my favorite character now.

You're probably right that I should have left the Will part out at the end. It's just that the whole chapter I was leading Adara to the office to make a connection between Nona Flores, the murders, and those files. (Who else's files are there?) But it didn't leave the chapter with a big enough ooomph.

Thanks so much for your comments, and I'm so glad you liked this chapter.

This was great. Only a few things I didn't like. Once again I don't think Jimmy who is experienced allow any chance of Methra getting out of her bonds occur, he would probably use something like a chain...Also Adara would not be acting so calmly when she just saw her daughter in the hands of a killer... I don't think she would even go to sleep much less go to her office, or even eat. Perhaps after a week or so she would get over it, but over the span of one day? And I'm not too sure about this Will thing... seems people are keen on making him a character but that would be slightly weird I think since we have been told that Jimmy only controlled one person at a time, told to us in the last chapter...well I guess I could be over-thinking this Will thing. Either way I loved your and except for a few nags it was great!

Rock, I love the nags - it means you're reading it!

First, read the Methra scenes carefully - you'll notice I never said whom the assailant was, and whether Jimmy was controlling him. Also, Methra has some kind of training - your ordinary, blindfolded, frightened receptionist would not have escaped - certainly not so quickly. In hindsight, the bonds and her escape could have been made more complex - maybe a chain or handcuffs.

Second, regarding Adara - remember it's been 4 days now since Paige's disappearance/kidnapping. She saw that the killer has Paige, but she also woke up knowing she'd find her today. People in distress respond in very different ways - and it's perfectly reasonable for her to be proactive. Finally, she isn't going to work, she's meeting Esperanza at her office - its a place she feels more in control and its not as intimate as inviting strangers into her home.

And with Will - he's not really a character in my chapter - though some of the other folk's chapters have used him to good effect. In my chapter, he's a body and a connection between the files, Lipscomb, Nona Flores, the killer, and Adara. He's a clue.

I didn't use Jimmy too much here because although he's the Com Killer, I don't believe he's the only evil, or the ultimate evil, controlling all the events that have happened. Like Adara, I hate coincidence, and I think some other evil, a person or thing or both, is playing a huge role here. But, that's just my take...

Thanks again for reading and commenting, Rock!

Also Paige killing Barton...er didn't really fit in, I guess. I know you were throwing in a twist but...Jimmy randomly killing Barton is just weird...especially since he chooses who he controls carefully. And wouldn't Paige be able to resist Jimmy's hold on her due to the fact that they have similar abilities. I still loved it though.

In the last chapter, Jimmy makes it clear that Barton is going to die - "Jimmy would never allow [sic] Brandon to return". I limited Jimmy's power to only controlling Gifted individuals (it was hinted that he couldn't control everyone, and I didn't want him to be all-powerful). Of the three women that Jimmy is targeting, Adara, Methra and Paige, all are Gifted. Methra is trained (in my version), and can resist mental control. Adara cannot be controlled by Jimmy (I don't touch upon why but I have several theories), which leaves young, innocent Paige - Gifted, untrained and vulnerable. (There's also a hint that he's controlled her before.)

There were definitely some great moments in your chapter — the twist with Paige being made to murder was very interesting. But I have to admit, that whole scene was very confusing as to who was slashing who with the razor -- and why Silent Jimmy would want Paige to kill (as opposed to BE KILLED). There are other character moments that don't seem to fit, either. Adara seems very oddly in control for someone who just got a phone call that could potentially save her missing daughter. I don't think she'd be leisurely sipping coffee and showering and musing and all that. The part with Esperanza's explanation of her first call to Adara is very hard to follow, too. And I think you need to watch your point-of-view shifts (either should be all omniscient -- meaning an all-knowing 3rd person narrator OR go back and forth between 1st person accounts of events.) Currently, you have both, which is very confusing.

Thanks so much for the comments, holly!

I just commented to Rock, Barton was cannon fodder since the last chapter, so I just made it happen. Paige was put back in the slip knots, and there is someone else (Methra's assailant) in the picture.

Jimmy's endgame - which from the last chapter seemed to be about having Barton get Adara, Methra and Paige to the cave and then performing some kind of ritual - is no longer clear, which I think makes it more interesting for a chapter 7.

Adara did go a little cool-calculated Nancy Drewish in this chapter, and everyone's picked up on that. I'm not so good at writing hysterical, but it would have been more consistent with prior chapters. My bad.

POV shifts were tough for me. I wanted to keep Adara 1st person because that's how most of the chapter authors had written her. Outside of Adara, I thought I had maintained 3rd person omniscient with the narrator shifting from Methra, to Jimmy, to Barton and back to Methra. Should I have written all the narrator's as 1st person? I'm not sure how I should have done it differently, but if it's confusing there must be a better way.

Thanks again for taking the time to post some comments!

Just a thought; I do see where Holly is coming from, with regards to some pov shifts (I'd like to know the right way to do that too -so if you find out, post it!:)and the somewhat calm Adara. It's a lack of some certain emotion that pulls the story back down a notch on the suspense level. (but every chapter lacks this quality for Adara- at least in my opinion) It isn't easy to portray a hysterical mother who is determined to change the course of her fate. tricky tricky stuff. In addition, it is no easy task to take a myriad of characters, plot lines, authors, thoughts, clues, twists (and toss in a couple religions) and make it coherent and interesting. I think you have done a fine job of doing that. I think also, that I understand why you left the scene with Paige slicing her kidnapper up a bit 'open ended'. You took the high road, letting the reader draw the obvious conclusions, added a few gruesome details and followed up with Paige explaining what she'd done, to Methra. It's the classy way to have our sweet young girl-victim commit such a horrible act. Also, it's not really her and the reader should take that position; it was her, but it didn't feel like her---because it really wasn't. Wow that is confusing huh? Anyway, my two cents are always more like two bucks, so sorry for rambling. lol Good luck! Foo

"It's the classy way to have our sweet young girl-victim commit such a horrible act." I love this line - like there is a classy way. But yeah, that's exactly the way I approached it. I'm a minimalist by nature, though I'm never sure if I'm writing too little for brevity, or for laziness. The reader is a better of judge of that. That's why I ramped up the gore a little bit in the revision, you were spot-on that the scene was a little too, little.

I like that Paige would have all the memories (and the evidence) of committing the crime, and have to struggle with understanding that she needn't feel guilty. Guilt is only for those with free will.

Great revision! I can definitely see where you tightened up the writing with Adara’s reaction to Franco and especially Paige’s to having murdered Barton. Sweet!

Thanks for commenting. To give credit...I owe those revisions to Foo's comments on the first version. (Thanks again, Foo.)

you're welcome~

Okay, so Methra has been involved in kidnappings before? She’s fairly young (mid-20s), agile, and wants to giggle when she’s abducted because he commits the amateur gaffe of using duct tape? Without yet seeing his face, she doesn’t know if he has a gun, where he’s taking her, or what’s planned. Seems awful cocky, even for a woman with Methra’s premonitions.

I particularly enjoyed your personalizing of Adara – the coffee beans, the ringtone, the conversation with Esperanza. They provided her a bit more dimension without feeling distracting.

Good breaks to keep up with Methra, Adara, Jimmy, Paige and Barton. Lots of ingredients, but you stewed them tastily. I’m somewhat confused concerning what happened between Barton and Paige – when Silent puppeteers them, do they have memories of what occurred? According to Barton, no. But Paige was hurt by him and she remembered murdering him.

Believable connection with Will Engram, though I’m not sure his tie-in was significant enough to be your hanger. Silent is established as the antagonist; Engram is thus far, a throwaway. You left various opportunities for people to pick up and run; curious why you selected that vignette to end your chapter.

All in all, a well-written installment. (4)

Thanks so much for your comments, nashvillebecker, and for the high mark! Just want to address a couple of your points.

Methra: I didn't read her as fairly young, just a bit younger than Adara. Going into the chapter it looked like typical abducted-girl-in-danger, so I wanted to change-up expectations by showing Methra was more than just a girl with premonitions, she had some training (martial arts?) that made her take this abduction less than seriously. I was trying to show, without telling, that she could have overpowered her assailant from the get-go. But instead she used the abduction to accomplish her original goal - finding Paige. In hindsight, I think I fell into the trap of saying too little, and a couple more sentences to explain - i.e. "Methra had to restrain her trained instinct to elbow, spin and flip her assailant; if she was to pull this off, she had to play the part of helpless victim." - might have been better. Also something to address the gun question - "Methra did not know if her attacker was armed, but she deduced that her abduction from a deserted area meant she was not to be killed. At least not yet." Dammit, I wish I could edit this now. :)

Regarding Silent's mind control - from Chapter 6 it appeared they remembered things but in a dream-like state. For Barton, he starts remembering his dream actions from the clues that surround him (being bound and naked, the girl, the sign he suddenly remembered writing). For Paige, she is literally bound to the same crucifix, in the same room, where Jimmy used her body to commit the murders, so her "dream memory" returns faster and more horribly. Maybe the fact that she's more Gifted than Barton also means she remembers better. Naturally, Paige would remember being hurt by Barton because she wasn't being controlled those times, Barton was.

You're spot-on about the last vignette, and I probably should have ended with Jimmy killing Barton through Paige for the most punch, and maybe put the Engram connection in before that. I was just being selfish because I wanted to write the Paige/Methra aftermath scene too. I wish I could go back...Oh well.

Thanks again for your thoughts and vote!

You're blowing me away, man. Your writing is extremely clean and easy to read. Very refreshing!

You do a great job of continuing the style from the previous chapter(s) in the story.

"God's Big Ten, as we called 'em at good old Saint Steve's"--great! It's writing like this that makes a voice engaging.

"It was unfortunate my dreams came back just a few weeks after he came into my life"--I'm a little confused. I had no idea that there was a break in Adara's use of her ability. Some elaboration into this would be helpful.

I like the conversation with Esperenza--great twist. I especially like the comment that during the first call, the speaker had an accent, and Esperenza now has no accent. Great!

"When it came to sheer coincedence, I was not a big believer"--great line!

Sick as it may sound, I absolutely love that Paige was used to kill Barton. That is so twisted, and I love it.

There were just a couple of typos throughout. Next time, take the extra time to proofread more thoroughly.

Overall, awesome job! I'm in love.

Thanks so much for your comments, Katrina!

You're absolutely right, I should have elaborated a bit more on the dream thing. In a prior chapter, it is mentioned that Adara was not having dreams for a while, and then Franco came back into her life, and then she started having her dreams again, and then Franco's sister is murdered...there's something coincidental there that is starting to bother Adara but she doesn't realize it yet.

The Esperanza accent thing was played off the chapter 5 comment that the voice pronounced sister like "seester". I figured if someone were using Esperanza's voice without her control, and Esperanza is of Hispanic descent, they might have assumed Esperanza had an accent when talking with her voice. So the real Esperanza without an accent would lend credence to her claim...

Thanks again!

WooHoo! Congratulations Wolfram! You earned it with an excellent chapter!

Right on!!! You earned it with a great chapter!!

congrats wolfram....

High-5, Wolf~good job! Your chapter is sure to be a nice lead off for the next round... Foo

Thanks all! I'm thrilled to have my chapter picked, and only sad that I won't be able to mash this story to its conclusion. :)

What a fabulous chapter! Sorry I missed out on the voting! i liked methra taking on a "superpower" mentality (the sneering at the kidnappers methods etc..) It will be fun to see where the other writers take that: she'll either live up to it and save the day or be in for a rude awakening with this villain! Love the description of the desert, the little details with the coffee beans and the characters were actually acting just as I'd imagine from the previous chapters. Bravo!
Chloe

Thanks chloe. I'm really eager to see where the next chapters are going to go with several of the story lines. For potential authors: feel free to read my post in the forums about characters and open threads going into chapter 8. Good luck!

Congratulations, wolfram!! I always mentally pick a winner and I've been right 4 times, hey, 4 of 7 ain't bad...lol. Seriously, excellent writing and very well deserved victory.

Thanks, WW. I just noticed your "Current Contest" story and posted a comment there. I hope you plan on writing another chapter here - you certainly do your homework.

Hey, wolfram...I did notice that you'd "taken care of" the potential painted corner in chapter 7 and was really pleased to see it. I don't plan to enter any more chapters in this contest. I struck out 3 times (those 3 that I failed to mentally pick the winner) and that's about my limit for failure...LOL. Actually, I've written the last chapter and I'm just hoping that the next chapter doesn't screw it up so much that I can't do a quick re-write. Your chapter fit very well, so maybe I'll have a little luck with chapter 8, too.

"Thou shalt not covet; Thou shalt not bear false witness; Thou shalt not steal; Thou shalt not commit adultery - these were the last four. Honor thy father and mother" Not trying to degrade this story just picked this little piece up while I was re-reading (to get my chapter in for the eighth round). Adara doesn't know about the thou shalt not steal one. :D sorry had to point it out.

Good point rocklee, but I think I can close that loose end too. Adara saw both "Thou shalt not steal" and "Thou shalt not commit adultery" in the same dream with Father Preston. See the penultimate paragraph:

My heart stopped as the face came rushing back into my mind. Only the last time I'd seen it was in a dream, the one with Father Preston. There were dead "sinners" all around, and a man and woman had a placard: Thou shalt not commit adultery.

Adara saw them in that dead "sinners" place. One thing I forgot to try and explain why she sees the "sinners" in once place, but they get discovered elsewhere.